So I've been following the MRA/Feminist debate online for a while now, and there is one thing that has always left me feeling dirty, The word "Patriarchy." And I wasn't exactly sure why, until now.
Around half of the occasions in which I'd heard the word, were occasions in which men were complaining about sexism or gender inequality disproportionately negatively affecting men. "That's part of the patriarchal system" feminists would say.
My initial question was "what kind of patriarchy would put mechanisms in place to allow women to hurt men? Worst patriarchy ever!"
But I was over thinking the logic here. Then I thought "Well who is this almighty Patriarchy, ruler of society, with power over all?" And I concluded that it must be the same elite class and power players that hurt every other aspect of society, such as the economy, media, family law, and politics. So I started crafting my response around Occam's Razor. The question "Isn't it enough that it might just be bad people, there is nothing inherently 'male' about any of the top down system of oppression that goes on in western society.
But then I realized I was over thinking still.
The ways in which this argument was disingenuous falls apart if you strip the argument down to its basic fallacy.
It's the childish " redirect" tactic. You take the word "Patriarchy" "Pater" means male "Archy" means rule. These people are literally saying that sexism against men, is because men.
I heard a similar saying when I was a child. "I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you call me bounces off me and sticks to you."
Now some may say I'm oversimplifying here. But let's take my previous question into account, really.
Who is the Patriarchy?
The simple answer is Society and Government. The Social Justice Wizard will attempt to use the talking point "Well, Straight White men have run the government and media for 200 years."
But this is also a disingenuous argument. And one that is highly sexist against the people who have worked for "equality" throughout this nation's history. You are literally diminishing the influence that women have had throughout time, and making the assumption that just because someone in power was a white male, that they couldn't possibly have been an ally for women's issues.
Others blame culture. I once again respond with the notion that perhaps women contribute to the culture.
Am I arguing that men don't have immense "privilege" or influence? No. But the influence of men on society and government and the influence of women on society and government do not have to be mutually exclusive concepts. And I'd argue that the real reason so much of our society does amplify the gender differences is that men are super-sensitive to the needs of women because they view the well being of women as being in direct relation to the well being of the whole of society. In other words, the "men in power" (so to speak), give that power freely to women. And we're supposed to believe that this concept is somehow male centric and apologize for oppression against ourselves.
"You're a sexist"
"I know you are, but what am I?"
Is literally what is taking place here.
The word "Patriarchy" is thrown around with no fact checking and proof that these policies and aspects of society weren't influenced or implimented by women. Nope, it is assumed that when something feels "old fashioned" or "traditional gender roles" that it must be inherently beneficial to the historic "manly man."
Instead, I submit to you, "The Patriarchy" isn't a term meant to get you thinking about who benefits and who loses when someone is oppressed because of their gender. No, I see it as a term meant to attach a penis to negative gender issues, to avoid a real discussion about sexism.
Thursday, July 16, 2015
Friday, September 21, 2012
Clearing the air - My departure from Liberty Restoration Project
I have tried my best to spend the last 3 years not speaking much of LRP.
Unfortunately, I have been told by multiple people that LRP's official word about me is that I was "kicked out for making a pass at Catherine Bleish"
The following is the transcript of the 2009 Email and the conversation that followed in which I stepped down as LRP's area director. Notice how there is no mention of improper personal boundaries.
-----
I have so many reservations placing these sentiments in black and white, when pondering on the responses I have gotten in the past when focusing on issues of concern. My hope is that my feelings will come out and not just words, that my passion will not lead you to conclusions, but merely help to quantify my state of mind. I know that I've been very negative the past few months in a lot of my discussions, and I am really questioning my paradigms on a daily basis.
Six months ago I was the poster boy for optimism, so honoured to be in your company, to be an ally in the good fight. Doing the right thing felt so rewarding. Lately I feel so lonely and empty. I've never before been one to let loneliness stop me from a hobby or project, however these issues we tackle are of such moral importance that I am starting to feel mentally lost.
When I accepted the position of KC Area Director of LRP I did so out of reservation, for I did not feel neither qualified nor worthy of a leadership role. I did feel the need to do more for the organization however, and out of my love for giving, I chose to accept a huge responsibility.
When I took on these responsibilities, I wanted to find my niche. I had to settle in with what I felt was a tried and true way to fight a tyrannical system. A few months back, the issues with my participation level seemed to ferment out of what seemed like nowhere to me.
I have sat up most mornings crying for the state of things, not fully understanding why. There is only one thing I put above LRP and that is my family. Times have been extremely trying for most of our peers over the last year, and you are aware that my family is no different. I went through a great bout of depression and loneliness during the late summer, one that nearly killed me spiritually.
I have settled in nicely into a life that I'm comfortable with, however, those feelings of loneliness have persisted and grown. I drive myself crazy trying to figure out why and I can only point at myself for the answer. There is something about what LRP KC has become that is inherently mine, something that seems to cause this organization harm. I tried to find my niche within the movement and the movement does not agree.
I keep telling myself that it's just me and my style. It's obviously not for everyone and everyone has a different opinion of what Activism is.
I'm really questioning why I even continue to fight on an almost daily basis lately, for in my loneliness, I have lost the main thing that has kept me going. My faith.
I have become so negative and cynical that I'm on the brink of agreeing with the eugenicists. I truly believe that LRP is on the right track and that this organization holds the one elite, perfected form of patriotism in the Kansas City Area.
I have never been a numbers guy, and I've always contended that I will be doing this forever, even by myself if I have to, performing the most mundane and repetitive tasks, without thanks, payment, or recognition.
However, my greatest hopes were to turn this organization around a rough corner. My first attempt was to reach out to people, attempting to create coalitions thinking that our allies in the movement would help raise the bar and continue to set the blueprint for liberty that we set forth. I feel very foolish, as it seems every other of our allies are in the same position that I am, trying to motivate "followers" to do anything more than sit in back rooms and make phone calls. So trying to build coalitions with the few hard working organizations was not getting very far in spreading the needed fight.
My second attempt was to go into overdrive with easy activities showing how hardworking and righteous we can be, in hopes that easy, good action would attract the people who can spot the good fruits of good labour and make them want to latch onto us.
It seems every where I turn lately my heart is broken and my hope is being shattered. I knew what I was getting into, a thankless lonely fight, but I had no clue that it would affect me in such ways.
Again, I went into this with the ultimate optimism and love, and today I see pain and hate just constantly brewing in me.
I know it has a lot to do with my focus, but you also cannot help but to focus on what you see and I see a lot of pain lately.
I assumed that I was allowed in this role because of some level of vision and wisdom, and at every turn, I just feel like my ideas and guidance blow up in my face in failure.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively expecting different results.
The truth be told I'm just sick of the "Movie Night" and "Beer Chat" activists. Just being in their presence makes me sick of doing this. And being by myself on street corners on cold lonely nights after spending 80% of my effort advertising our actions, is only a constant reminder of how many people would rather go to a bar or movie night and play the victim.
Look at the Tea Party movement, what could have been a great opportunity for the nation to wake up, was taken over by media and party hacks and turned into a bitch fest with no action plan.
And now our Christmas party. Our chance to have a great networking opportunity and give thanks to our community during a time of Christmas Joy is being turned into a beer night and fundraiser.
$10 at the door to share in the holiday spirit (err we mean Wine and Spirits)
ugh.
For so long I was criticized for my lack of outreach, and now we've come full circle. I have had people contact me almost daily asking what LRP is doing for the holidays and wanting to collaborate. I have no clue what to do because what started as a plan for LRP KC was un/overplanned due to Scheduling and Fundraising needs for Operation Defuse.
While the cause and plan for Operation Defuse is a noble one, the scheduling and fundraising needs have come at probably the most unfortunate time of year.
"Localize" indeed?
What was once an LRP Family is now a traveling circus.
Pay your $10 and buy a raffle ticket once inside.
See the clown for your balloons.
Actually I take that back, I don't want to offend the circus, because having a circus to wake people up would be more effective than the current strategy.
I look forward to the core team gathering at Gabe's but I will not participate in the Fundraiser and after Operation Defuse I will step down as Area Director.
This does not mean I am stepping away from LRP or stepping away from the movement, on the contrary, I just do not have the leadership skills to focus on true First Amendment activities and still appeal to the rest of the world who just wants to watch movies and drink beers.
This will allow for Tracy or Gabe to step up, both who have great vision and ideas for how to keep this train rolling, and both have great patience and tolerance of "the casuals"
This will also allow me to direct a greater focus on my street action without the distraction of participation levels, and allow me to focus on my campaign in 2010.
I don't want this to be seen as an attack on anyone because I do understand why things are going this way, I'm just offering an opinion as to why I can't be a part of it.
When Bryon and Nick left, I told them one thing that still holds true, LRP is what you make of it, and I put in everything I have and more. I have great visions for what I could do with an active chapter of LRP, but I cannot get us to that point.
Kansas City Missouri is quickly becoming a lost cause, and solo activism seems to be what is calling me because that seems to be nearly my role as LRP leadership, but at least solo I won't need to do the extra promoting of my work as a group effort. And I'll never run the risk of not giving Gabe or Tracy the credit they deserve.
I feel really bad that I was the only face of LRP during the Fed rally last month. I had hoped that the two of you (and even Kent or David) would have participated because you all deserve great credit for the work you do in the organization. I should have at least mentioned you and I feel guilty for not doing so. That event was not about me, and I did not mean for the appearances to be such. It was a crazy busy week for me.
I love you all, and pray for continued success.
Happy Holidays,
Kevindonttreadoncat: Hey, I hope you know I still love you, brother, no matter anyone's role in LRP, you are always my friend and always my brother and I will always stand shoulder to shoulder with you
Unfortunately, I have been told by multiple people that LRP's official word about me is that I was "kicked out for making a pass at Catherine Bleish"
The following is the transcript of the 2009 Email and the conversation that followed in which I stepped down as LRP's area director. Notice how there is no mention of improper personal boundaries.
-----
I have so many reservations placing these sentiments in black and white, when pondering on the responses I have gotten in the past when focusing on issues of concern. My hope is that my feelings will come out and not just words, that my passion will not lead you to conclusions, but merely help to quantify my state of mind. I know that I've been very negative the past few months in a lot of my discussions, and I am really questioning my paradigms on a daily basis.
Six months ago I was the poster boy for optimism, so honoured to be in your company, to be an ally in the good fight. Doing the right thing felt so rewarding. Lately I feel so lonely and empty. I've never before been one to let loneliness stop me from a hobby or project, however these issues we tackle are of such moral importance that I am starting to feel mentally lost.
When I accepted the position of KC Area Director of LRP I did so out of reservation, for I did not feel neither qualified nor worthy of a leadership role. I did feel the need to do more for the organization however, and out of my love for giving, I chose to accept a huge responsibility.
When I took on these responsibilities, I wanted to find my niche. I had to settle in with what I felt was a tried and true way to fight a tyrannical system. A few months back, the issues with my participation level seemed to ferment out of what seemed like nowhere to me.
I have sat up most mornings crying for the state of things, not fully understanding why. There is only one thing I put above LRP and that is my family. Times have been extremely trying for most of our peers over the last year, and you are aware that my family is no different. I went through a great bout of depression and loneliness during the late summer, one that nearly killed me spiritually.
I have settled in nicely into a life that I'm comfortable with, however, those feelings of loneliness have persisted and grown. I drive myself crazy trying to figure out why and I can only point at myself for the answer. There is something about what LRP KC has become that is inherently mine, something that seems to cause this organization harm. I tried to find my niche within the movement and the movement does not agree.
I keep telling myself that it's just me and my style. It's obviously not for everyone and everyone has a different opinion of what Activism is.
I'm really questioning why I even continue to fight on an almost daily basis lately, for in my loneliness, I have lost the main thing that has kept me going. My faith.
I have become so negative and cynical that I'm on the brink of agreeing with the eugenicists. I truly believe that LRP is on the right track and that this organization holds the one elite, perfected form of patriotism in the Kansas City Area.
I have never been a numbers guy, and I've always contended that I will be doing this forever, even by myself if I have to, performing the most mundane and repetitive tasks, without thanks, payment, or recognition.
However, my greatest hopes were to turn this organization around a rough corner. My first attempt was to reach out to people, attempting to create coalitions thinking that our allies in the movement would help raise the bar and continue to set the blueprint for liberty that we set forth. I feel very foolish, as it seems every other of our allies are in the same position that I am, trying to motivate "followers" to do anything more than sit in back rooms and make phone calls. So trying to build coalitions with the few hard working organizations was not getting very far in spreading the needed fight.
My second attempt was to go into overdrive with easy activities showing how hardworking and righteous we can be, in hopes that easy, good action would attract the people who can spot the good fruits of good labour and make them want to latch onto us.
It seems every where I turn lately my heart is broken and my hope is being shattered. I knew what I was getting into, a thankless lonely fight, but I had no clue that it would affect me in such ways.
Again, I went into this with the ultimate optimism and love, and today I see pain and hate just constantly brewing in me.
I know it has a lot to do with my focus, but you also cannot help but to focus on what you see and I see a lot of pain lately.
I assumed that I was allowed in this role because of some level of vision and wisdom, and at every turn, I just feel like my ideas and guidance blow up in my face in failure.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively expecting different results.
The truth be told I'm just sick of the "Movie Night" and "Beer Chat" activists. Just being in their presence makes me sick of doing this. And being by myself on street corners on cold lonely nights after spending 80% of my effort advertising our actions, is only a constant reminder of how many people would rather go to a bar or movie night and play the victim.
Look at the Tea Party movement, what could have been a great opportunity for the nation to wake up, was taken over by media and party hacks and turned into a bitch fest with no action plan.
And now our Christmas party. Our chance to have a great networking opportunity and give thanks to our community during a time of Christmas Joy is being turned into a beer night and fundraiser.
$10 at the door to share in the holiday spirit (err we mean Wine and Spirits)
ugh.
For so long I was criticized for my lack of outreach, and now we've come full circle. I have had people contact me almost daily asking what LRP is doing for the holidays and wanting to collaborate. I have no clue what to do because what started as a plan for LRP KC was un/overplanned due to Scheduling and Fundraising needs for Operation Defuse.
While the cause and plan for Operation Defuse is a noble one, the scheduling and fundraising needs have come at probably the most unfortunate time of year.
"Localize" indeed?
What was once an LRP Family is now a traveling circus.
Pay your $10 and buy a raffle ticket once inside.
See the clown for your balloons.
Actually I take that back, I don't want to offend the circus, because having a circus to wake people up would be more effective than the current strategy.
I look forward to the core team gathering at Gabe's but I will not participate in the Fundraiser and after Operation Defuse I will step down as Area Director.
This does not mean I am stepping away from LRP or stepping away from the movement, on the contrary, I just do not have the leadership skills to focus on true First Amendment activities and still appeal to the rest of the world who just wants to watch movies and drink beers.
This will allow for Tracy or Gabe to step up, both who have great vision and ideas for how to keep this train rolling, and both have great patience and tolerance of "the casuals"
This will also allow me to direct a greater focus on my street action without the distraction of participation levels, and allow me to focus on my campaign in 2010.
I don't want this to be seen as an attack on anyone because I do understand why things are going this way, I'm just offering an opinion as to why I can't be a part of it.
When Bryon and Nick left, I told them one thing that still holds true, LRP is what you make of it, and I put in everything I have and more. I have great visions for what I could do with an active chapter of LRP, but I cannot get us to that point.
Kansas City Missouri is quickly becoming a lost cause, and solo activism seems to be what is calling me because that seems to be nearly my role as LRP leadership, but at least solo I won't need to do the extra promoting of my work as a group effort. And I'll never run the risk of not giving Gabe or Tracy the credit they deserve.
I feel really bad that I was the only face of LRP during the Fed rally last month. I had hoped that the two of you (and even Kent or David) would have participated because you all deserve great credit for the work you do in the organization. I should have at least mentioned you and I feel guilty for not doing so. That event was not about me, and I did not mean for the appearances to be such. It was a crazy busy week for me.
I love you all, and pray for continued success.
Happy Holidays,
Kevindonttreadoncat: Hey, I hope you know I still love you, brother, no matter anyone's role in LRP, you are always my friend and always my brother and I will always stand shoulder to shoulder with you
10:06 PM me: Sure that won't get in the way of the "Brand"
?
donttreadoncat: ????
10:07 PM me: So what is an "Official Document?"
please humor me
I am so done with the image bullshit
10:08 PM the fundraising bullshit
donttreadoncat: I'd say stuff we're handing out to the public, paper and documents, etc.......
me: what happened to the loose band of family
ok
so
donttreadoncat: Kev, changing a logo is like changing an organzation's name
me: the website would be classified as an official document
donttreadoncat: it'd be like calling us the freedom restoration project
I"m not saying a word about how we behave when it comes to imaging, I like being radical
me: what does Google do every holiday, Catherine?
donttreadoncat: I'm just saying lets be consistent with our logo
10:09 PM me: Does coke not have holiday cans?
get some fucking fun spirit and quit trying to run this like its the United fucking way
donttreadoncat: they do, but to change a logo for a season is something we need to approve as a group, in my opinion
me: which I tried to do but someone was busy videoing waves to respond to a fucking email
10:10 PM kinda ran out of time
had shit to promote
donttreadoncat: KEVIN I'M ON A PERSONAL VACATION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS. This conversation is starting out counter productive, if you want to talk to me, then lets talk
me: but its okay
donttreadoncat: OK, it is my opinion we should not be changing the logo
me: I wont promote shit anymore
donttreadoncat: Okay, take a deep breath, lets talk about this when we both have cool heads
I feel like I am being misunderstood and being blown up at
and I do not feel that I have done anything wrong
10:11 PM me: My head will be cool when I pay LRP back the money I owe it and my phone number is taken off the website
donttreadoncat: I was not being antagonistic, and it seems others in the group agree on the logo thing
it was not a personal attack
What money do you owe LRP?
me: shirts phone
donttreadoncat: And your number is not on LPR, LRP's number is on LRP
10:12 PM me: ok I'll give up the phone and get my own
I dont give a shit
donttreadoncat: I am rather confused, I feel like you are unleashing some anger at me and I don't understand why
me: I just left a fun event to come home and deal with this
donttreadoncat: but I understand that you are upset and I respect your descisions
me: This is NOT A BRAND TO ME
donttreadoncat: You didn't need to do that
10:13 PM me: We are not fucking ROBOTS
this is NOT THE UNITED WAY
donttreadoncat: I agree
I agree
but I still REALLY like our logo
and if you want me to be frank, I don't like the graphic changes you made
just stylisticlly
10:14 PM me: so MAKE A FUCKING FLIER YOURSELF BEFORE WE HAVE ANOTHER EVENT TO GO TO
donttreadoncat: I have and do make fliers kev
lots of them
just made one 3 days ago for LOLA
made some in StL
and in KC
me: good thing you share them
donttreadoncat: ?
what do you mean?
me: glad we get to APPROVE OF THEM
10:15 PM donttreadoncat: Kevin, I'm just talkinga bout the LOGO
nothing else on the flier
me: sounds to me like I'm the only one who asks for fucking permission
donttreadoncat: ????
me: today the logo, tomorrow something else "Brand" related
donttreadoncat: Kevin, I can tell you are upset and I am sorry that I have obviously contributed to that
no, our name, our logo, our core issues, that's LRP
10:16 PM me: Used to be the PEOPLE made LRP
Fuck the logo
donttreadoncat: it will always be the people
me: I dont recognize what it stands for anymore
donttreadoncat: OK
I don't know what to say Kevin
Your anger is coming out of left feild to me
me: theres nothing to say, I said it
10:17 PM there is nothing to "Brand" for if the brand comes before the work or the people
10:18 PM donttreadoncat: Kev, I want the idea of LRP to live on until the job is done, no matter who is involved, LRP is not me, it is not you, yet it is all of us at the same time.
I don't think keeping a logo consistent is such a bad thing to ask
and if it is something that upsets you I am sorry
I try to run all of our dieas by folks, that why I have google docs and google wave stuff set up
10:19 PM and I am sorry that it upset you that I was not checking my email on my personal vacation
although I do feel I am spending more time working than any other living being would on a nonwork trip
me: its not a bad thing to want, its a bad thing to force.
donttreadoncat: now, with that being said, I only have 30 min of internet and a LOT to get done
I wasn't forcing, I gave my opinion, did I not?
10:20 PM me: so go get it done, those of us continuing the "LOCALIZE" part of the fight will be here when you get back
donttreadoncat: am I not local enough for you Kev?
me: Local is a buzz word for you
donttreadoncat: cause I've handed out over 10k fliers MYSELF in StL since being here
10:21 PM wow, that really hurts my feelings
me: congratulations, here's a cookie
donttreadoncat: I guess my efforts in Missouri and StL and and KC don't matter
why are you treating me like this kevin?
me: You're not in KC
donttreadoncat: what exactly did I do that has you so upset?
me: I am
donttreadoncat: no, I"m not, but I was
and when i was there I put in a LOT at the local level
me: so why is everything I do in KC not good enough
donttreadoncat: what are you talking about?
I've been telling everyone how proud I am of you
how you inspired me with the End the Fed stuff
10:22 PM I was literally in tears when I was watching those videos
Your email made me cry today because you were literally inspiring me
10:23 PM and I was typing a response, while I was here in the coffeeshop
and then yo ustarted freaking out on me
and I am very confused
and I am sorry I upset you
It was not intentional
10:24 PM I care about you and respect you and look up to you
me: well I've come out against these name and logo issues a thousand times
donttreadoncat: and I also respect if you want to step down
10:25 PM This is the first the logo has ever been addressed that I am aware of
me: I will not participate in them further
donttreadoncat: I agree that we don't need to be image contientious the way rich deyoung would like
but I don't think asking folks to keep our logo the same and to keep our acutal name the same and to stick to our core issues is asking to much
there's no point in having an org after that
me: It was one image to play into the holiday spirit, in the way Google does with their logo
Ok
donttreadoncat: So, if that is a line in the sand for you, I understand
me: so lets not then
10:26 PM I'd rather not have an org than be anal about the things that make us an org
donttreadoncat: OKay that's fine, if the logo is being edited I'd like it to be of the same graphic calibur that the origional is
Okay
I'll keep running LRP, you can do whatever you'd like, Kev. I wish it was with LRP and I'm sorry this is such a major issue for you
as I said I respect you and your decisions and look forward to how we can work together in the future, in or our of LRP
10:27 PM me: Okay, so all the work I've done on fliers and the website is not up to standard and should be removed immediately
god forbid it conflict with the brand
donttreadoncat: sigh
10:28 PM I don't know how to have a constructive conversation when you speak to me like this
I see nothing on the website that is an issue, can you tell me specficially what you are referring to?
and on the flier, lets just put the regular logo
me: the things I did
10:29 PM donttreadoncat: I see no changes to the logo on the website, maybe I"m missing it
can you please direct me there
me: the website will return to its previous state and I will buy the remaining "Globalists" shirts from Kriss if thats what the group decides
10:30 PM god forbid LRP sell anything I design
10:31 PM Again this goes beyond the logi
logo
as I said, is the website not an "official document?"
donttreadoncat: Kevin, where is the logo changed on the website?
and we LOVE the globalist shirts
what are you talking about
10:32 PM I feel like you are taking a business opinion about the logo as a personal attack on you
I am very confused
WHERE on the website is the logo changed?
me: ok so my "shitty" graphic work is okay when Catherine approves
donttreadoncat: NO
jeeze
me: stfu about the logo
donttreadoncat: I am ONLY talking about the logo
stop talking to me like that
please
me: I am talking about the "image" discussion
10:33 PM donttreadoncat: I gave my opinion on the logo and you are spinning this into something it doesn't have to be
me: which starts at the logo but includes everything else I've tried to do for this goddamn organization
donttreadoncat: you are acting like I am trashing your ABILITY TO CREATE and I all am saying is I think the LOGO needs to be consistent, the end
no it does not
you are projecting that
it starts and ends with the logo
if I am somehow making you feel otherwise I am sorry, I feel like I am being clear
10:34 PM me: "OK lets talk branding - on official documents"
your words
not mine
I dont fit this "Brand"
I dont fit any "Brand"
10:35 PM and if you disagree with my designing, then please choose a better way to describe the issue because this shit is pissing me off
donttreadoncat: no, the edited logo I don't like sorry
I am sorry I used that word
10:36 PM me: so, part B
donttreadoncat: (I do wish you could take a deep breath and talk to me before yelling)
me: Is myspace and facebook not an official way LRP communicates
?
10:37 PM donttreadoncat: well, since it's not the official website I didn't say anything
we do officially communicate that way, yes
but its a bit more informal
what are your thoughts?
10:38 PM me: my thoughts
"OK lets talk branding - on official documents...."
10:39 PM "I've not said a word about the Facebook / MySpace, etc... But I do agree that on anything "official" we need to stick to the original logo - for consistency, for branding,"
so I guess I'll stop promoting LRP on either of those channels
10:40 PM donttreadoncat: ??
stop promoting LRP because you don't want to use the official logo?
Kev, if this is the line in the sand, then draw it, I don't kwno what else to say
me: no because you dont respect it as an official part of our organization
10:41 PM I feel like my hard work is going into the shitter
10:42 PM I feel like the things I do are always going to have a top down feel
| 5 minutes |
10:48 PM donttreadoncat: ????
I don't respect it as an official part of our organization, but it is a TOOL for our organjizatoin
Howso?
I don't say a word about any of the stuff you are doing, other than bragging aobut y'all
cause I'm proud of you
10:49 PM What hard work do you feel like is going down the shitter?
I thought you were super excited about stuff, I was too, having you excited again was pumping me up
now I feel like shit
and am crying on my vacation
and not getting any work done cause I'm crying and trying to figure out what the FUCK "Im doing wrong
how I piss you off so easily
10:50 PM I don't dictate a THING TO YOU - I just gave my opinion on the logo and that turned into this?
me: I am excited, thats why I'm trying to make things fun
donttreadoncat: this is not fun
I was just giving my opinion
and you flipped out on me
and it is an opinion that is obviously shared by a few of our members
10:51 PM me: okay
I agree on the one issue
but this is an argument about fundamentals
you are putting the logo and name before the family
donttreadoncat: It shouldn't be an argument, the only person arguing is you
I'm trying to talk
that is NOT TRUE
10:52 PM I'm trying to make sure people recognize the family
that is TIT
*it
You are projecting that on me
I made one comment
and you ahve subsequently made me feel like shit and made me feel bad for taking 6 fucking hours to see the biggest waves since the 60s to hit here on a freak chance that I am here
you know I give LRP like 16 hours a day
literally
10:53 PM and gave 10 yesterday, on my vacation
that I am paying for
not lrp
so I don't HAVE to be doing LRP stuff at all
but I'd prefer to make sure nothing slips thorugh the cracks, not to mention I ENJOY my LPR work
I enjoy it until someone treats me poorly
and tries to make me feel guilty for having a life outside of LRP for one week
and curses at me
and projects untruths on me
10:54 PM it is not fair and you have hurt my feelings
and I hope this can be addressed differently in the future.
me: woe
is
you
.
10:55 PM I'm not trying to attack you
dont paint it that way
donttreadoncat: "woe is you" that is condesending and counter producting
me: so is whining
donttreadoncat: prodicutive
I'm not whining, Kev
I'm speaking honestly
10:56 PM I am going to cease this conversation until you can speak to me professionally
and kindly
and respectuflly
me: I tried
donttreadoncat: I am doing that for you, even though you are not treating me well
me: you want to make this personal
donttreadoncat: no you did not
me: this is not personal
donttreadoncat: you flipped out on me from the get go
me: this is about your "professional" manner
I did?
donttreadoncat: my professional mannor?
10:57 PM me: I recall being told that my work wasn't good enough and that 50% of my work was being done through an unofficial method
donttreadoncat: yes, your reaction to my opinion on the logo has been a major and unneeded flipout
wow
okay
I told you ONE EDIT TO A LOGO I DIDN'T LIKE
and that the social netoworking sites are just that, social networking sites
me: you didnt say "I dont like"
donttreadoncat: that we use, tools
me: you said it wasnt brand worthy
donttreadoncat: Not for the logo, no
it is my opinion
10:58 PM and I was being honest
and I was not attacking you
but you obviously are taking it that way
I'm not going to fight
me: and I am being honest, you want me to attack you, quit playing the victim
donttreadoncat: lol okay kevin, I don't know what to say anymore
Let me know what you decide
I don't feel like I have been unreasonable
10:59 PM me: well
youre being told differently
and you dont like it
so you percieve it as an attack
donttreadoncat: no it is HOW you are communicating with me Kevin, that's it
I am fine with you disagreeing with me
me: sorry if you take it that way but I am being honest and I wont play the victim or sugar coat things to persuade people
donttreadoncat: not how you are communicating with me
no you are being mean
11:00 PM and I'm done
let me know what you decide
bye
me: maybe that needs to happen from time to time
sometimes things sound or feel mean
I told you already what I decided
I told you months ago
I thought we had an understanding
but we didnt
11:01 PM so I will pay LRP back and give up the phone and I want my name off the front page of the website by next tuesday
Once this started to resemble a top down org I am done.
period
11:02 PM bye.
11:03 PM donttreadoncat: I respectfully request permission to paste this conversation in its entirely to the group so people are aware of exactly what was said and can decide to follow you or say based on the same line.
11:04 PM the CORE GROU ONLY not anyone else
me: "decide to follow"
I want no followers
I will make no drama
11:05 PM I'm not a followed kind of guy
donttreadoncat: Okay since you are not giving me an answer I am letting you know I am sending this conversation in its entirety to the group. Thank you for everything you have done for LRP. It has been wonderful fighting by your side, I hope our paths cross soon
me: but do as you wish
11:06 PM I appreciate your attempt to be nice, but please refrain from insincerity
11:07 PM and I hope I can stay as far from you as possible, so as not to be affected by your "opinions" any more.----------------------------Just for the record.
I don't want any hard feelings coming out of this, I am severing ties and that is that. I still plan on being a casual member of LRP if you do not force me out.
Regarding the Woe Is You comment.....
1. You're in Hawaii - don't make it sound like you're having a hard time
2. Yes you're on your "Personal Vacation"...guess what I did on my "personal vacation"?
3. You travel ALOT. Do you not leisure on every one of your trips, whether the trip is provided by LRP or not?
4. I hold down a full time job PLUS did LRP full time. Often doing both at the same time, so whining about how many hours you devote to LRP does not sway me.
5. My main problem is that you couldn't see my point. I was not angry about one opinion of one flier. I was angry about the casual way that you can use the language of a corporate entity when referring to my work. I kept trying to get across to you that it's not healthy to the organization to care more about the looks of your organization's logo than you do about whether or not there is someone willing to do the work to place that logo on an "official document"
6. I will admit that my implosion of anger upon you was perhaps sudden, but we've had discussions before about how structured LRP should be, and I so did not want to have to re-hash it after the 2 week depression I've had over LRP.
6b. You see, the last few weeks I keep running into former-active members of LRP. They are a constant reminder of how this once great organization is falling apart at the seams, and that I, the person, am unable to glue it back together. These are people who have had similar disagreements about your travels being more important than the local fight. I'm sorry if that sounds cocky, but you are trying to run an organization, and one day you don't have your phone, and instead of getting caught up on things once obtaining your phone, you chose to do leisure activities while I was trying to promote your fundraiser that was being passed off as a holiday party.
7. The KC Core Team had begun planning a holiday party. Multiple ones in fact, as we had done last year. I went out of the way to try to include you. When your schedule conflicted with our plans, I could have held our party on the 17th anyway and said screw Catherine, but I didn't. I tried to work things out between you and Ed, and when Ed became unresponsive, I do not have his phone number, and asked if you did. THE NEXT THING I KNOW you're talking about your friends' bar and planning our party for us. Over the last week, I was still unsure of the details and called several times for our plans to be hashed out asap.
8. For days I was waiting for a reply on Wave before you communicated that you did not have access.
9. I had hoped you would have checked email sometime yesterday prior to the KC meeting, as I sent out a query about having a conference call. Sorry, I should have called you and demanded one.
10. When the above attempts were unsuccessful I took what little details you had confirmed and worked my ass off to get a flier done in 20 minutes to try to help an event that I did not support, so that I could promote it at another event that I did not support. I'd like to think that that was a sign of dedication and wishes that even an event that I do not support goes well for the team, because that's what a team player does.
11. I never meant to come off as angry, I just started that way, and when you couldn't see how narrow of a vision it is to hold a logo so close to your heart, an image, a digital representation of what you want to view as "LRP" it only made me angrier and I'm sorry.
12. It's as I kept telling Tracy yesterday, LRP is not We Are Change. WeAreChange are not a logo, they are people and action. They are not a name, they are not recognition. They are recognized only by the fruits of their labour. The name of that organization is only known because the people involved care enough to put that name on their hard work. Just as I hoped the LRP logo would only be recognized by putting it on our work. When you tell a person that their work is not worthy of your brand it puts the brand above the person. When I start my own organization, I will encourage everyone to spread my logo, make their own versions, and if a 3 year old retarded kid wants to draw it in crayon, then I will gladly put it on the front page of my website. That is how you go viral.
13. This talk of a Chicago chapter, and the previous failures of expansion show clearly that LRP is not capable of having chapters for these very reasons. Your "Identity" has become more important to the leadership than the fight. and dare I say Catherine's ability to support her friends and family through LRP is more important also.
14. In reality LRP has become 3 chapters. And while Catherine owns LRP, LRP does not own Catherine. Much of your "Activism" can be done with or without the "Brand" which is why in the conversation I had with you, I brought up the fact that while I submit my design work to the group, You do not.
15. I write this out of boredom and reflection, a freight train of hard work for the organization came to a sudden stop last night, and now I can only reflect on how I can expand in a constructive positive way on the negative things I relayed last night. Much love to everyone involved, I apologize deeply that this relationship had to end dramatically, even though drama was the one thing that could drive me away.
I don't want any hard feelings coming out of this, I am severing ties and that is that. I still plan on being a casual member of LRP if you do not force me out.
Regarding the Woe Is You comment.....
1. You're in Hawaii - don't make it sound like you're having a hard time
2. Yes you're on your "Personal Vacation"...guess what I did on my "personal vacation"?
3. You travel ALOT. Do you not leisure on every one of your trips, whether the trip is provided by LRP or not?
4. I hold down a full time job PLUS did LRP full time. Often doing both at the same time, so whining about how many hours you devote to LRP does not sway me.
5. My main problem is that you couldn't see my point. I was not angry about one opinion of one flier. I was angry about the casual way that you can use the language of a corporate entity when referring to my work. I kept trying to get across to you that it's not healthy to the organization to care more about the looks of your organization's logo than you do about whether or not there is someone willing to do the work to place that logo on an "official document"
6. I will admit that my implosion of anger upon you was perhaps sudden, but we've had discussions before about how structured LRP should be, and I so did not want to have to re-hash it after the 2 week depression I've had over LRP.
6b. You see, the last few weeks I keep running into former-active members of LRP. They are a constant reminder of how this once great organization is falling apart at the seams, and that I, the person, am unable to glue it back together. These are people who have had similar disagreements about your travels being more important than the local fight. I'm sorry if that sounds cocky, but you are trying to run an organization, and one day you don't have your phone, and instead of getting caught up on things once obtaining your phone, you chose to do leisure activities while I was trying to promote your fundraiser that was being passed off as a holiday party.
7. The KC Core Team had begun planning a holiday party. Multiple ones in fact, as we had done last year. I went out of the way to try to include you. When your schedule conflicted with our plans, I could have held our party on the 17th anyway and said screw Catherine, but I didn't. I tried to work things out between you and Ed, and when Ed became unresponsive, I do not have his phone number, and asked if you did. THE NEXT THING I KNOW you're talking about your friends' bar and planning our party for us. Over the last week, I was still unsure of the details and called several times for our plans to be hashed out asap.
8. For days I was waiting for a reply on Wave before you communicated that you did not have access.
9. I had hoped you would have checked email sometime yesterday prior to the KC meeting, as I sent out a query about having a conference call. Sorry, I should have called you and demanded one.
10. When the above attempts were unsuccessful I took what little details you had confirmed and worked my ass off to get a flier done in 20 minutes to try to help an event that I did not support, so that I could promote it at another event that I did not support. I'd like to think that that was a sign of dedication and wishes that even an event that I do not support goes well for the team, because that's what a team player does.
11. I never meant to come off as angry, I just started that way, and when you couldn't see how narrow of a vision it is to hold a logo so close to your heart, an image, a digital representation of what you want to view as "LRP" it only made me angrier and I'm sorry.
12. It's as I kept telling Tracy yesterday, LRP is not We Are Change. WeAreChange are not a logo, they are people and action. They are not a name, they are not recognition. They are recognized only by the fruits of their labour. The name of that organization is only known because the people involved care enough to put that name on their hard work. Just as I hoped the LRP logo would only be recognized by putting it on our work. When you tell a person that their work is not worthy of your brand it puts the brand above the person. When I start my own organization, I will encourage everyone to spread my logo, make their own versions, and if a 3 year old retarded kid wants to draw it in crayon, then I will gladly put it on the front page of my website. That is how you go viral.
13. This talk of a Chicago chapter, and the previous failures of expansion show clearly that LRP is not capable of having chapters for these very reasons. Your "Identity" has become more important to the leadership than the fight. and dare I say Catherine's ability to support her friends and family through LRP is more important also.
14. In reality LRP has become 3 chapters. And while Catherine owns LRP, LRP does not own Catherine. Much of your "Activism" can be done with or without the "Brand" which is why in the conversation I had with you, I brought up the fact that while I submit my design work to the group, You do not.
15. I write this out of boredom and reflection, a freight train of hard work for the organization came to a sudden stop last night, and now I can only reflect on how I can expand in a constructive positive way on the negative things I relayed last night. Much love to everyone involved, I apologize deeply that this relationship had to end dramatically, even though drama was the one thing that could drive me away.
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